For those who know me well, already know that this is one topic I always wanted to comment about. I have talked about this to almost everybody I know and have even asked many of my fellow blogger to write something about it. But none responded and they all may have their reasons. But now because I have decided to blog, I would like this to be my first real topic that I want to write about. So here it goes:
Unity of Indians has always been praised to whosoever comes to India. People when they visit our country, are astonished to see how people from different religions, languages, color and castes live together at the same place happily ( though I haven't seen that anywhere).
We have history of wars in our country. Every community has fought with other and there are no exceptions in this. What kind of unity are we talking about here.
I think this phrase "Unity in Diversity" (one of the nine Enduring Principles of Community of Christ, an international Christian church.) was given to India, as part of divide and rule policy by Britishers. They first praised the country and then made us fight among ourselves. They already knew, how much people hate each other in this country. They just needed to settle for which they did everything including praising the country as I already mentioned. The only reason the divide and rule worked was because there was never a unity and if anyone thinks that we got our independence because we got united, just see the parts that India as divided into. The phrase was just a lollipop for the Indian child mind people to get the attention. Give the child the lollipop and then kidnap. Boom.
And even though the kidnapped child was rescued, he still likes that lollipop and thus never forgets about phrase in question. You will find people boasting about there unity in the country. Meet a foreigner and when she/he mentions :Unity in Diversity", our minds go to on cloud nine.
Its time to accept, we have never been united. We all used to fight and we are still fighting among each either. Previously, it was done by so called Maharajas and now by people like us.
Kashmir says nation discriminates with us. Everyone north east person who goes to other part of the country is never treated well. Maharashtra doesn't want North Indians. Previously they were against South Indians. South Indians doesn't want North Indians. Biharis are not welcomed anywhere. Democrats want communists to go. Communists want Democrats to go. Hindus, Muslims and Christians are fighting among each other. Even the children are not let alone. What kind of Unity are we talking about.
The whole concept of divided nation exist in our nation, we even call our selves North Indians, South Indians and so on.
Its time to accept the reality. We were never united. Can we be? I am not sure of. So if the next time you here somebody phrasing " Unity in Diversity" for India, kindly understand that either he is making fun of Indians or he doesn't know anything about Indians.
Though I see mentality of youth now changing somewhat, I still see "Unity in India" a far sighted thing.
UNITED WE STAND. LOL
Tyagi ji.. Welcome to the blogging world .... Liked ur explanation of fight and unity but check out my page for my reply. :)
ReplyDeleteFew things from my side.What you explained is the spirit of fighting rather than fighting with unity. If this spirit is to fight among each other, it can never be unity but if it is to fight together, yeah we can call it unity. But later never seems to be the case. What you explained can never be taken as unity but yeah it can be taken as a call for unity as you mentioned at the end of your blog and I quote "Let us unite to fight again!!".
ReplyDeleteIf you talk about independence, we were not united for that too. Many groups fighting their own way. You talked about Bhagat Singh then you must also know how he actually died. Was that really unity? Besides his cases, moles were always their everywhere that time too.
What you explained here is more of spirit of fighting. Yeah I am sure again that if a foreigner comes and talk about Dr. Kalam, JC Bose etc. we will again boast about being Indians. But please don't call it unity. Even the evilest of all will come together for a praise. Its the time of need when we don't find each other united.
Everyone you mentioned are all great men but tell me, did Dr. Abdul Kalam made that missile alone? How many of others do you know. Its a group which gives you a product ( individual work is different), and it should be brought out as a product of group and not individual.
And by what you say because India and Pakistan are fighting, we are united.
So that's why I would like to tell that there is a difference between spirit of fighting and fighting among each other.
United we stand again.. LOL
Dear Tyagi ji.. Check out my next post for the reply :)
ReplyDeleteI have read Shantaram. I do not remember, where exactly in the book, Lin baba is comparing India with other countries, but the essence of it is still there with me. What he is saying in the book, being an Australian, is that if you create the same situation, as it is there in India, in any other European countries, with so many people cramped in everywhere, in trains, buses, metros; there will be a big havoc. European people will go berserk. They have a very small tolerance level when juxtaposition-ed with Indian tolerance level. And taking into the present scenario it is necessary to have that tolerance level intact. We are managing fine, people commute in packed Mumbai locals, and there are no riots on comfort issue. Europeans looks better than us in their own comfort zones, you change their zone and you will see.
ReplyDeleteThe grass is always greener on the other side.
And being an optimist, I believe, India is changing. And changing for good. First you be good, rest all will fall into a line.
ReplyDeletewell I like Dilip's comments...
ReplyDeletethats the first thing that came to my mind, if any of these foreigners would be given a chance to live like we do, what'll be there rxn, and believe me, the feeling of it wasn't good at all... they are fighting like animals e1 after having same/similar languages/cultures, but on the other side if u take a look at us INDIANS, being so DIVERSE, we are COMPARATIVELY calmer, well talking about fights, our country is like a container having number of reagents, which are stable on their own and even when mixed, but if there is any external agent then therez a BOOM with fumes and all...( like Britisher's divide and rule policy, not only this but other things, which I should not mention here, as those cases are still not solved )...so speaking of UNITY, we all must be having friends in different communities, and just think for once keeping them in mind, would you stand beside them or against them...believe me if he/she is your FRIEND then whether hez wrong or right , either u'll make him/her right (if wrong) else whatever happens u'll standing right next to him/her..atleast i'll be... THAT only is what is UNITY is for me, rest these Politicians are doing whateva they can do to have VOTES ( REAGENTS )...
rest if we say there are no Indians in INDIA...only south indians, north indians, gujrati, punjabi, marathi, bihari...etc etc...thats culture... and thats d same story with people from outside, if u r in dere country...for xample if u ask an american...where is he from then only a fool ( i would say that) would answer as he is an American.. that's not the answer... but if hez in some other country, first thing that he'll tell SHOULD be his country name...n i don't think for that case any Indian would have said otherwise...no body is going to say hez a Punjabi in a land where no body knows punjab......
UNITED WE STAND.... i would still say it.. as because we are united, e1 while sitting on a bomb, we can still assure some bit of peace... and we have been united on every occasion it was required, I don't think need to give xapmles for that...
rest being a diverse nation, we are still together ... that only is unity and thats y UNITY IN DIVERSITY is best suited for nation like ours.....atleast on a braoder sense.....
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ReplyDelete@xbeecool:
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be agreeing with me that there was no unity in past. Atleast that is what I understood from your first paragraph.
Coming to your second paragraph, I was not able to understand whether you are saying Mughals invading us as a good thing or a bad thing. Kindly elaborate on that.
And yes whatever I read after work you again yourself are specifying everything that relates to a divided nation, whatever be the cause ( language, religion anything).
I am not against unity my friend, I just don't see it here in my country. You also specified all those things.
Regarding Bhagat Singh, yes he was a martyr, but people die then only to become martyr. Kindly don't take that I don't take him as a martyr. But I don't think you understood the context of what I was trying to say. I cannot say he was martyred because Gandhi ji did nothing because that will make Gandhi ji as an enemy of our nation which I don't think he was. But just listen to what you are saying. You are saying that Gandhi ji let Bhagat Singh die because he thought it will bring the nation together. Can you really justify that. It was a mistake at Gandhi ji's part and no one can deny it.
If you really think it was justified then I think you can also justify, what all terrorists do, they are also killing people to get what they call as their people to unify. And yes this was not a comparison between Gandhi ji and terrorists. It is something that can also be justified, if you think that Gandhi ji's step to let Bhagat Singh die ( Martyr) was right.
And at last yes I would again like to say, if fighting among ourselves we can never be united. Just see the definition of unity to see what I am trying to say. So kindly do not justify people of this country fighting with each other and at the same time saying that we are united.
@ Dilip:
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be justifying tolerance rather than unity.
For example:
Lets say, there is some dictator. He puts on some rule in his country.Now people will either have to tolerate whatever he says or do or they will stand with him in whatever he says or do. So toleration and unity for me are like two opposite things if we go into the meaning of these things. So then the phrase should have been " Toleration in diversity" rather that "Unity in diversity" and thanks for giving this phrase to us Dilip.
Regarding that gesture about if same thing would have existed somewhere else, they wouldn't have survived, I think it is an hypothesis which our dear friend, Lin baba has made. I have never been to an European or American country, but I think everywhere you will find people from all cultures available ( Though not in proportion as ours) and they all have been leaving there without any problem. When 9/11 happened, all Muslims were taken responsible for that in America, and when attacks happen in our country we also take them as the major culprits. So i don't think there is much difference and infact there is equal amount of cultural difference in America also. Whaever happens here happens there to. But you just compare the national unity situation there and here, you will see the difference. And by the way go to Africa, you will find same overcrowded buses and trains there also and you will find different cultures there also.
And yes I also agree that Grass is always greener on the other side but just look at the color of the grass at your side first.
@wolverine:
ReplyDeleteAgain the same point, whether it is external reagent or internal, my question is who is fighting at the end. Its us. All of us. So again, I ask you not to kindly justify the fighting among the people of this country, by factors like external and internal agents.
If we would have been that united, no internal or external reagents have been able to do anything. Its our divided nature only which these external and internal reagents are able to exploit.
Regarding your point that if we are in India we its justified to present ourselves from different regions rather than Indians but if we are outside we all will present ourselves as Indians, I have something for you.
Kindly go through the references too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_Zindabad_Force
http://www.sltwg.org.uk/
http://bengalisinuk.net/
http://www.bcauk.co.uk/bcahistory.htm
and i can show you so many societies just in London, with regional divide, with language divide, with culture divide.
So if not here, there also there is no university in that diversity.
You try to google, any group with Indian context rather than regional context present in London though I agree they all meet up in an Indian get together once a year. lol
Again thanks to Dilip, " Toleration in Diversity".
@ankur:
ReplyDeleteI think you have totally misinterpreted the tolerance and unity or for that case being calm by self and by making someone to do that....
there are no dictators here...and there is no need of tolerance...
whatever links you have provided are example of that only.. specially the people who want different lands (e.g khalistan, telengana, gorkhaland, etc)... that is freedom, but that too is controlled mind you not dictated.. they can ask for whatever they want to, but untill and unless it is justified it wont be provided....and its totally different from being forced to do something ( example can be found ... one is china...and also reason of all civil wars is d same )
the other links are just showing that people still have their identities even after going to any foreign land... atleast people are meeting once in a year with similar background people, (its better than meeting your father on father's day and mother on mothers day and so on...)
some examples that shows that still WE ARE TOGETHER can be seen from history to present... any calamity you take... Mumbai massacre, tsunami...everybody stood up to it, hand in hand and helped everyone out without asking there castes and religions... thats where our UNITY comes in to picture... and I still would ask if your friend from different community is dere, what would u do (being realistic)???
and something about foreigners ... if not on castes, they are still divided on the basis of color + locations...
and you said people start hating whole of the community if they are involved...example muslims for 9/11....
I would like to ask on that context... did we do any of these kind of thing after kargil ??? or for that sake... just 1 yr after 9/11 , we were targeted at our assembly... after that how many muslims were put in jail , for being a muslim...and for that matter.. so called open n shut case of kasab in mumbai massacre, we gave full chance to him to put his prespectives...
we are a nation of unity and equality... if you want to call it Tolerance you can.. its your wish.....
rest about those reagents and these things not effecting us and all if we are stable and all..... e1 the most stable of the elements react under extreme conditions....
@ankur
ReplyDeleteIf people are travelling in overcrowded busses or trains and not fighting over petty amenity issues, 'among themselves', then where comes the dictator in picture?? Why are they tolerating each other?? Not because some dictator, from somewhere is dictating them to tolerate. And if you are taking unity in absolute sense then it can be seen advertised only when there is a riot or something of that sort. 'Hindu-Muslim riots' and people start chanting, hindu muslim bhai bhai (Hindu Muslim brothers and sisters). Then too unity in absolute form is absent. Otherwise in reality there is unity adulterated with toleration.
If you are in search for absolute form of things i.e. without any adulterations, in this world; you are going to get very disappointed at the end of the day.
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ReplyDeleteI see the grass at my side greener; I do!! :)
ReplyDelete@wolverine
ReplyDeleteFirst of all let me tell you that dictatorship quoted by me was just an example.
Besides that you are saying that tolerance as suggested by you and Dilip has been misinterpreted by me.
Let me tell you one thing, Indian tolerance is about the tolerance I am talking about. You go to Kashmir, you see what they have to tolerate. You go to central India and all the Naxalite affected areas and see what the people have to tolerate there and really mind this that they are not only tolerating the terrorism but other forces too.
Now, let me bring into your notice those areas where people who speak Hindi are tolerated by people living there. I don't know whether you accept this or not, people who speak Hindi are not welcome everywhere and if a person is not welcomed and he is still able to go there that means that he is tolerated by the people living there. To make it crystal clear, people don't want him to come but because he has come they will do everything to make his life miserable.
Everyone tolerates. Even the state govts have to tolerate whatever is imposed on them by the central govt. you might have seen that issue where if in a state opposition is in rule, they always make these claims that the center is not supporting them.
So my definition of toleration is crystal clear and i have also understood it right. People tolerate people in this country and that is a fact.
Regarding the people having identities, again you justify my point that when i say people go to other country and they don't really identify them as Indians but bengalis and punjabis, people are not just Indians but bengalis or punjabis, whatever the crap there passports say. This is what I have been tryig to say right from the start.
Regarding your point that people come in situations like Mumbai massacre, you now know a so called Hindu group which has been carrying attacks on so called Muslims ( should have been Indians on Indians), no unity there again, and may be you haven't but I have seen so many people who want to kill or hurt others because either they are not of same religion, same caste, same region etc. from people dying in 1984 to people dying in 2002, there will be ample recent examples that should tell you about how much people hate and tolerate each other here in this country.
Regarding foreigners, yes they are also divided, they also have the same issues, and same situation exist there too. My point is if everywhere its the same why "UNITY IN DIVERSITY" for India.
Regarding if you really don't know about what all things have happened in India after Kargil, just go and look into your recent past and you will know.
And if you say most stablest of the elements react in extreme conditions, I will agree with you, but would add something to it. There have been extreme conditions in India prevailing right from the time India came into existence and that is why my friend your elements always get the condition where they can easily react.
@ Dilip
ReplyDeleteAgain dictatorship is just an example.
If you want to see tolerance in your case, where people have been traveling in overcrowded buses and trains, it is only the tolerance of these people that they are able to travel in this kind of situation. Give them the other option they will really be happy to accept it. Same way if that is the only way of traveling people will travel using it without any doubt either it is Europe or USA.
So kindly don't make it an issue of Unity, as in those buses and trains only, people fight, they fight for seats, they fight to stand, they even fight to get on the trains or buses. Really, that is the unity that you say that exist.
Regarding adulteration of the unity, my dear friend, that adulterated unity exist everywhere, nothing so special in India about that.
And my last point to you, I am not against this nation, this is a cynical way to say what I see lacking in this country. People don't really like other people here and that is the truth. I have been to more than 20 states of this country and really I have experienced it.
Whatever it is, there is very big gap among all of us and its really not the culture, but rather a gap that can really bring the concept of acceptance among the mind of the people of this country.
So I think its time to see the truth rather than glorify about something that really isn't there and start looking into some solution of this problem.
okey if you call TOLERANCE amd not considering as an example or for that matter considering it as a rivalry or anything like that...I am giving you a lil xamples here on your comments...that might help you out in differentiating the things....
ReplyDelete"Let me tell you one thing, Indian tolerance is about the tolerance I am talking about. You go to Kashmir, you see what they have to tolerate. You go to central India and all the Naxalite affected areas ..."
starting from kashmir issue...I think there should be no commenting, because its an issue that everyone knows and are well aware off, that it has gone beyond casts and religion , its an issue of power and brutal politics and terrorism, if you c there also exist Hinduz and muslims and they live together and for that matter fight together as being KASHMIRI and not as an individual hindu or muslim... i am just being little sensible here by not putting things that should not b dere...
rest naxalites and non hindi speaking areas, if you speak of people, they are still helpful, but people related to system, i.e of some group or political party or any union for that case are BIASED, that I agree, but this is because there wont b any relevance to them if they dont do that...
as we are talking as person or from peoples point of view should be put here, we are quite closely binded people, and you may call it that we do tolerate each other well, even after TOLERATING all THE OTHER issues even other than terrorism and/or communism etc...
"Even the state govts have to tolerate whatever is imposed on them by the central govt. you might have seen that issue where if in a state opposition is in rule..."
these are all again political issues, as far I know of the system, there shouldn't be anything of that sort, whatever they are getting from center, if they utilize fully for whatever it is meant for, there wont be any problem, every time, everywhere its like half of the amount or even less is utilized and rest goes somewhere else, so all in all I just want to say let be a different issue between the states and center as everybody knows its POLITICAL...not only money but other things like for maintaining peace and other things, when things go out of there hands then they ask for president rule and then they say center didn't do anything, center can only do things when it is asked to do, and states for that matter never call center untill the thing is out of hand...
"Regarding foreigners, yes they are also divided, they also have the same issues, and same situation exist there too. My point is if everywhere its the same why "UNITY IN DIVERSITY" for India"
A gr8 theory was given by a gr8 scientist of our time, RELATIVITY...and I want to emphasize on that as there level of tolerance is way less than ours, hence the saying...UNITY IN DIVERSITY... keeping it in mind that we are way much more diverse than them and still our level of TOLERANCE is way less than ours....
AND
"Regarding your point that people come in situations like Mumbai massacre, you now know a so called Hindu group which has been carrying attacks on so called Muslims ( should have been Indians on Indians)"
you cannot tell it to be a thing done or for that case even appreciated by anyone except for the so called hindu party, that did that.
whatever was done by those party members is deeply regretted by everyone of us, even other political parties and everyone NOT related to that party were against the axns taken by them, and still that same party is not of much appeal at the center level, though at state level it may be a big party, but people are still against them, and that was shown and proved in next elections...
I hope I justified all your doubts, keeping "UNITY IN DIVERSITY" as not being any sort of joke on INDIANS...
"THINGS HAPPEN, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS SOME REASON BEHIND THEM...AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE REASONS"....not just a quote...
@ wolverine
ReplyDeleteReally sir, I have gone through most of your recent comments and have found that you don't seem to have any idea about what I am really trying to say. So I think I will have to rephrase it all for you.
When I talk about an issue whether it is Kashmir, Godhra, Maharashtra, South India, they are all examples. When you take out my sentences one by one and comment, then you are concentrating on one single picture at a time.
Let us widen this for you. Bring all of them together and try to see what is happening here. Many issues same result. A fight. As as I should say then a fight for the existence of the community. In kashmir, its Kashmiris who are fighting they say. In maharashtra, its marathas. In godhra, and many other parts of India, hindus and muslims arre fighting. In south, hindus are killing christians. Regional people fight people from out of their region. States themselves fighting each other over water, land and everything. Don't you really think those problems really have a solution if really thought about all of the country. And yes even though these topics are political, which issue that divides people in not. If you go to war with a country tomorrow the issue is always going to be political. Whatever that cannot be explained and answered is regarded here as political.
And whatever I have mentioned here are not even .01% of the problems that we have in our country. So instead of pointing out the individual things see the bigger picture that whatever be the reason, people are fighting. And that is what has been happening right from the past.
And if you really think its sensible not to speak out about things like kashmir, I know all my politicians have also been very sensible. lol
Regarding hindu terrorism, whatever you have said applies for muslim terrorism ALSO. I hink you must be knowing how many people of this country hate muslims. And similarly there are hindus who hate the muslims.And yeah there may be some who do not discriminate on the religional grounds, mind me, they will find something else to fight.
Regarding people from different regions, just tell me who make unions. Aren't they people. That sounds biased I think. lol. What I again would like to emphasize is, reason can be any. People find reasons to fight. And really sir, in a communist state everybody is a part of one or the other union.
What i want to say is in this country people don't stand with people when needed. And really don't bring Mumbai and all here because I have so much to say about those people there.
A single question, hoe many peaceful marchs have you seen here. And yes I agree that it is always a political party that makes everything violent, but my question is where do we so called sensibles go when somthing like that happen. We sit in our homes and think nothing can be done and someelse will one day do something. Really sensible people we are. Really united too.
Thing is everything has a solution. There is nothing that can't be resolved. But there is no unanimous decision for anything here. And yeah again you will say political parties do it, I ask you to stand against these political parties which are ruining India and I will see how many of them will follow you. Get something like that done here and I will accept "Unity in Diversity". Till then sorry. And yeah again don't bring ignorance into picture here, that because people don't care they don't come together for things like that, ignorance can again be taken as a reason that why people of this country are not united.
ReplyDeleteAnd at last the most ridiculous point made by you, that relatively ours is the country that lives together happily. I am really loling about this comment. Just want to bring about one thing here. Unless you have been to every part of the world, just don't make these kind of remarks based on what others have said about this country, as i can also show you the people who really think complete opposite to what you have heard, outside this country also. And really dude one things comes into my mind here, a great dialogue, " PEHLE APNE GIRBAN MEIN JHANKHO". One more Dialogue, " ANKHON DEKHI PE VISHWASH KARO, KANO SUNI PE NAI".
And I really don't think this will clear your doubts, " Ankhon pe patti jo padi hai".. lol. Joking dude...